Cheney's Chappaquiddick?
There are a lot of unanswered questions surrounding Cheney's accidental shooting of his hunting partner on Saturday, the main one being, why did it take 22 hours to report this to the American people?
Courtesy of The Smoking Gun
Another question would be, why if the Whittington was shot from 30 yards away, does the report show injuries more consistent with a close range shooting (see illustration, or full size atThe Smoking Gun)? I mean, if they're shooting with bird shot, shouldn't the spray area get larger the farther away from the shotgun it gets? Since most hunters I've talked to say you never fire your weapon until you're sure where everyone in your party is,is this an indication of Cheney's general incompentency? I mean, we're trusting this guy to send our troops into battle, and he can't even follow the rules of a simple quail hunt? Is this what happens when someone puts himself above the law? Isn't this worse than a stained blue dress?
Recklessness and lawlessness should not be tolerated in our "elected" officials. Now we a re cursed with an administration that not only breaks the law, but hsows nothing but callous disregard for the safety of others, whether it be soldiers they sent in to battle without the proper equiptment, or hunting companions whom they accidentally shoot because they can't seem to follow even the basic rules and common sense that most people in this situation would exercise. It's time we demand Cheney step down. He is not only a danger to his hunting companions, he is a danger to the Constitution and the citizens of this country it protects.
65 comments:
Absolutely, Lew. Its worse than a stained dress. It's bad, but then again, isn't it at the bottom of a list of things that are far worse than a dress and cigar? I was just watching Fucker Carlson weigh in on the antics of the Press Corps and for once I agreed with him: why aren't the Press Corps more vigilant and frisky about the other things that have happened as well? And why DIDN'T the AP pick up the story?
Guns don't kill people, Dick Cheney does...
Forget that Cheney shot one of his own fellow hunters, showing incompetence at the “sport” of shooting farm-raised birds. Forget that there was an 18 hour delay in reporting the accident. The Republicans will try to blame the victim, first, then they will go after some liberal comment on the incident, like those of the Bradys. . .
“Now I understand why Dick Cheney keeps asking me to go hunting with him,” said Jim Brady. “I had a friend once who accidentally shot pellets into his dog - and I thought he was an idiot.”
“Makes you feel not so bad about when he was duck hunting with Scalia”. By the way, I note that the people at Democratic Underground are referring to this scandal as “Fuddgate”.
Fuddgate, I like that.
Well, Lily, first off, it's nice to see that Fucker Carlson admits there are other things to be frisky and vigilant about. Secondly, I think it's hard for Cheney to "9/11" this one away.
The delay in notifying the press is not the issue, but the dealy in notifying law enforcement is. Cheney was probably under the influence of alcohol. Not to mention some of the witnesses were probably illegal aliens used as "caddies" during the hunt.
It wadn't my fawlt! Dat wiwy Wabbit ws too cwevo for me!
Try that again. Even the New York Post is making fun of Cheney on this one, comparing him to Elmer Fudd.
That aside, there are other issues here. Cheney already has two alcohol related offenses under his belt. Was alcohol a factor this time? Also, the VP is on medications for his various physical ailments--were they a factor? We'll never know because of the eighteen hours between the incident and the actual reporting.
In the meantime, some right wingers are actually trying to blame the victim. "He shouldn't have got in the way." Well, guess what? That just doesn't wash. One of the first things you learn in a gun safety course is that you are responsible for your own actions. Once again the personal responsibility conservatives want nothing to do with personal responsibility. Or should I say they really mean personal responsibility for their subjects but not for themselves?
Just a few more points. Would they have reported the incident at all if the victim had been seriously hurt? Was their a correlation between the time they waited and the severity of the inuries? And what's this business with some of the media, refering to the incident as a "spraying" or a "peppering." It was SHOOTING. Let's get real with the vocabulary here and stop protecting these goons.
3Bulls! is having a Dick Cheney contest. Stop by!
How many more screw ups by Dick and Jenna before the Republicans get back all the grief they gave us about Monica?!
But can it really be "Chappaquiddick" if the victim doesn't croak?
Just asking.
You know this is why i laugh at you guys. Is this bigger than the stained dress and cigar? No how could it be? This is a hunting accident, nothing more than that. It's news because it's the vice president. But that's it, there were no lies under oath, there is a "smoking gun" but this time it's in the literal sense. You're hatred for Bush/Cheney isn't allowing you to be objective. Now if you knew me when the whole thing was going on with clinton (i detest him) you would know i didn't think he should be impeached. He cheated on his wife and even raped a few women way before the intern, i thought we should "move on" because it wasn't a good thing for the country. However, if you can't see that what clinton did was criminal, and what cheney did was an accident, then you are either stupid (i don't think so) or you are politically blind. either way, thanks for the entertainment.
Looking back on it, Senator Pat Leahy was lucky to get away with the "Fuck You" bomb from the trigger happy Veep. The last time someone from the Whitehouse shot a friend in the face, the Republicans yelled foul. They better send Whittington's dress to the cleaners.
Daly Show Corddry : "Jon, tonight the Vice President is standing by his decision to shoot Harry Whittington. Now according to the best intelligence available, there were quail hidden in the brush. Everyone believed at the time-there-were-quail in the brush. And while the quail turned out to be the 78 year old man. Even knowing that today, Mr. Cheney insists-he still would have shot Mr. Whittington in the face. Fortunately, no quails were injured in this tragic accident.
Has Whittington been charged yet for looking like a bird, sneaking up behind the VP, and making Cheney shot him in the face?
Wait a minute, who is trying to compare this to "Chappaquiddick"??? i just saw that one. Please tell me you're not serious. Ted Kennedy left a party with a woman who was not his wife, wasted, drove off a bridge, killed her, and left to go back to his hotel and call HIS LAWYER not the police, not his wife, not his children, not an ambulance, HIS LAWYER. And after he sobered up and got his story together, then they called the police. Please tell me no one is comparing a hunting accident to MURDER!
rhino: "after he sobered up and got his story together, then they called the police." BINGO! You've just made the Chappaquidick connection, my man. It reeks of Booze, Meds or a vascular incident cover-up to me. Chappaquidick ... can anyone come up with an abbreviation for that? D.K.
anon, what the hell are you talking about? It would be a connection if they left the guy in the grass bleeding to death while they went to the cabin and worked out the story. The whole thing is comical, and the jokers were out in force. I saw the Daily show and thought it was great, but that's because no one died!
Rhinoculous! We meet again. Like I said at your blog, I am not threatened by people that don't think exactly like me. Dissent is helpful. In fact, there would be no point to an open forum if perspectives were not appreciated. I'm not a Republican or a Democrat, and my snark is not really partisan as much as issue-oriented. Some of it is because we all had to sit there watching their self righteousness in the Clinton years, and I think we just get a little bit irked every day when we see such disproportionate reactions to relatively worse behavior. I don't just complain because of 'politics', I complain like my conservative Navy grandfather complains when we go out to dinner. What do we get for this $17.99? A salad, bisque, what? Justify, Miss! Well, what do we GET in America???
Hence, I think FEMA should have done their job because I care, but ALSO because we PAY the damned government to do their jobs and we PAY all these incompetent inexperienced clowns to do all kinds of tasks and if they are not going to do them, leave the money in my damn paycheck and let me at least have that money to put aside should I need to hatchet my way out of my house and eat drowned rats.
That's not partisan, thats common sense. When I see you attack posts about social spending, etc. you do it with this same knee jerk reaction like I do with Darth Cheney, you assume that we support social programs because we are sappy hippies, not because of cost benefit. And I assume Cheney is a dumbass because he's a dumbass.
I agree actually that had he died, it would be a different matter and certainly we would not be laughing at it, I will concede that my hatred of Cheney clouds my judgement because its so hard to think when the bullshit detectors keep going off!
rhino: better check HQs for a NEW set of talking points.
CNN ticker at the top of their homepage:
Man shot and wounded by Vice President Cheney suffers "minor heart attack" after birdshot becomes lodged in his heart, hospital spokesman says.
In his heart? This wasn't a surface scratch with a pellet gun. The guy has been in ICU for three days, was supposed to be moved out today, and now suffers a heart attack from birdshot lodged in his heart?
This story follows the script of everything related to the Bush Administration. First it is a close call, then it is no big deal, then it is a serious issue.
Oh damn, I'm talking about Hurricane Katrina again...
Lily i'm glad you're not threatened by me, that is not my intention or my goal. I don't know what you're referring to when you say my "knee jerk" reaction, but i can tell you that i agree government should let us keep our money. i don't see the "cost benefit" of letting big government figure out what to do with MY money. I understand that you hate Bush/Cheney and co. thats why i read these blogs, it's funny to me. keep up the good work.
One hell of a peppering, eh, Earl?
yeah earl i just saw that. But i get talking points, i give them. the only thing that has changed is that it's not funny anymore. If it's a flesh wound, it's funny. If someone dies, it's a tragedy. I'll pray for this man. I hope that doesn't get me banned from this blog.
Banned? Who bans? What makes you think hippies don't pray? There's a difference between being spiritual and being theocentric and seeking to impose religion on others unlawfully. My own religion is irrelevant in these discussions. Some of us just don't think its a bureaucrat's business. Why are 'small government' people (I mean in general, not anyone in particular)so into the contradictory practice of regulating minds, souls, bedrooms, relationships, consent, medications, sex, education, etc.? A paradox.
Rhinoculous, I mean the idea that there are financial arguments that are reasonable that support some, not all, of the 'liberal agenda'. There are sensible roles of government.For example, public health. Disaster response. Currency. A means of providing reasonable relief to those that need it in ways that make sense practically and financially. An example would be national healthcare, which I support for 'human' reasons but also for cost reasons. Not all functions of government are intrusive, wasteful, or inappropriate. Many things are positive for society. But then there is the stupidity that goes on. I fail to see how anyone, liberal or conservative, can care about their tax money and NOT be troubled by wasteful/no bid contracts, corporate tax evasion, lack of accountability, deficit spending, trade imbalance...
I guess its like the difference between providing health care or eating the cost of people showing up at the ER all day...which makes sense? Well managed social spending makes sense. Emphasis on well managed.
Seriously you guys need to stop living in the past. Not every scandal needs to end in -gate, not every Republican is a Nazi or Fascist, Bush is not Hitler, not every war we fight is 'another Vietnam' and this by no means is not Chappaquiddick. You cant help shape tommorow if you continue to be handcuffed by yesterday.
Handcuffed to yesterday..And tortured by yesterday..and spied on like Hoover...and labeled like McCarthy...and led to financial devastation like Reagan, requiring the shit to be cleaned off the fan by yet another Democrat like Clinton...yes, look to the future. 2008. Which Democrat will clean the shit off the ceiling from this administration?
Lets look further at what our grandchildren will pay for this debt, and how quickly they will learn to speak Chinese...maybe in a few years our Quality of life ranking will be twenty? twenty five? Followed only by the stats of the third world? Maybe we can look to the future of peak oil, and stop subsidizing energy companies and plan for renewables now.
It is very forward looking to consider this administration's handling of energy policy, that IS about confronting challenges of the future, is it not? We can connect A LOT of our anger at the current regime to forward based concerns. Can you dispute that?
TP...What does Billy Joels "We Didnt Start The Fire" have to do with anything...or were you quoting REM's "It's The End Of The World As We Know It (And I feel Fine)"???
Donkeygate,
Iraq is exactly like Viet nam. We are not fighting for our country, we are fighting for (dollar) imperialism to try to impose our way of life on those who do not want it. We will never win there because the people we are fighting have nothing to lose, they are fighting for their homeland. What is the US fighting for? WMD? (no) 9/11? (no) links to alQaeda? (no)
Bush not like Hitler? Didn't the Nazis spy on their people? Didn't the Nazis round up people because of their religious beliefs, lock them in interment camps and torture them? (I won't even mention the Reichstag fire)Didn't Hitler invade Poland (which posed no threat) to make Germany more secure?
Only the truly deluded would think a cum stained dress is more serious than a man exercising a lack of good judgement with a loaded weapon in his hand.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
lily, don't be so sensitive. You link to the ACLU, and code pink. excuse me for thinking you might be hostile to religion. Anyway, i don't believe in national health care if its run by the government. there is no government in the world that is efficient or well managed. Ours is no exception. It would be just one more big welfare program. I am not an uncaring person, i would love to see everyone be able to get good healthcare. However i don't think that a government run program is the way to get it done. As for wasteful no bid contracts, and corporate tax evasion etc. thats exactly my point. That stuff will always go on in government. It's not a party thing, they're all the same when it comes to money. and that's what it is, it's the money.
Lew,
So by your definition, was FDR like Hitler as well?
...and for the record I prefer McDonkey (I hate the color red too)
He cheated on his wife and even raped a few women way before the intern,
Your hatred for Clinton isn't allowing you to be objective.
Isn't Lew sexy as hell?
Hitler, Hitler, always Hitler! Yes, and you know what? Jimmy Carter was like fucking Hitler too. They ALL suck. Clinton and Albright let thousands of people in Rwanda hatchet each other. ALSO like Hitler, but let's face it, Hillary is no Eva Brawn and Fleetwood Mac ain't Wagner!!!!!!
I don't know, did we torture Japanese-Americans? Did FDR authorize spying on the Quakers? Did Fdr create a no-fly list to harass critics of his administration like Ted Kennedy or Doug Thompson?Which sovereign nation did he (FDR) invade without provocation? (which is a war crime)
Here's where your general hypocrisy lies, you say we shouldn't be handcuffed to the past, but the minute someone criticizes Bush, where do you go? To the past!
Lew you are way off base. Stop reading Pravda on the Hudson, they hate America. Iraqi's don't want us there? says who? Theres 25 million people there, most of them do want us there, but you don't hear about them. because you read the ny slimes and watch cbs news. The president is not spying on you, unless you're communicating with al qeada. are you? this president hasn't rounded up american citizens and thrown them in internment camps, like FDR did during WWII, This president didn't go into Iraq to stop the spread of communism, like JFK did in vietnam. This president didn't go into Bosnia to halt a genocide that wasn't actually happening, to distract the country from his personal infidelity like Clinton did. This president in fact got 19 U.N. resolutions and congressional approval before he took action. You can't say that about ANY other president EVER. I don't want to sound like a Bush cheerleader, there's plenty i don't like about him, but you're just one more politically blind bitter person who can't get over the past. Clinton lied under oath, that's a felony. He got impeached because he was stupid. "move on" Gore lost the election "move on" Kerry lost the election and got worse grades than Bush at Yale "move on" Cheney had a hunting accident, there is no gate, there is no stained dress, there is no cigar, "move on"
Why is the ACLU hostile to religion? They are about protecting the rights of people, sometimes that includes the right to practice religion. You don't think somebody can believe in the separation of church and state but still be religious? Tell that to the religious people that work for the ACLU!
Why do you assume people to be atheists or against religion simply because they take a particular view of the Constitution regarding establishment? It goes back to the last post, its either let our country become a theocracy OR we hate God. Can you guys get past that?
Lew,
It was a simple yes or no question.
Do you think FDR was like Hitler?
How bout JFK?
...LBJ?
-big difference between citing the past to put things into historical perspective as opposed to basing ones sole argument on it.
kvatch, i hate clinton, but thats beside the point. jennifer flowers, paula jones, juanita broderick. they were all before monica. And those are just the ones we know about. But as i said in that comment, i didn't think it was a good thing to impeach him, so i don't see how that doesn't allow me to be objective?
Lew who have we tortured? You mand the animals at guantanamo who get 3 squares, and prayer mats? you mean the people who we force feed with IV's because they're on hunger strikes? Or do you mean the people who's heads we chop off with a rusty knife on tv while they beg for their lives? oh that's right, that's not us. my bad. so please tell me who have we tortured.
Oh wait I get it, no need to answer. How could I be so blind...only Republicans can be like Hitler. My bad. I feel so stupid. Now let me run of to shave my moustache in shame
No, I mean the ones ship off to secret torture locations in countries like Morrocco and Turkey. Or maybe you've never heard of Abu Ghraib?
"anonymous"-If the jackboot fits....
He was drunk. What other reason could there be not to see the cops. If he WASN'T drunk he would have wanted to be interviewed by the cops to prove that he wasn't. I bet Ms. Armstrong was ladling hot coffee down the bastard's throat all night. As to the pattern of the shot: sure, I could believe he was closer. One DID get into his heart, afterall.
It may not be such a small deal after all. This just came in on Yahoo news about fifteen minutes ago on
ohttp://news.yahoo.com/fc/us/bush_administrationn:
"CORPUS CHRISTI, Texas - The 78-year-old lawyer wounded by Vice President Dick Cheney in a hunting accident suffered a mild heart attack Tuesday after a shotgun pellet in his chest traveled to his heart, hospital officials said. Harry Whittington was immediately moved back to an intensive care unit and will be watched for a week to make sure more pellets do not move to other vital organs. He was reported in stable condition. "
Now if by some tragic twist of fate, the poor old guy suffers another heart attack and actually dies, would that not make Cheney guilty of something like negligent homicide?
I think we can step back though and look at some things that are not cool no matter who is in power. We are bound to intervene in Genocide by Geneva.Chromosomal abnormalities in babies from depleted uranium is unnecessary, white phosphorous on civilians is unnecessary.Etc. Etc.These things do not make us safer. These resource wars take MORE of your money, not less! We are MORE vulnerable to extremists because our budget is being so heavily spent on recruiting.. look at the FINANCIAL ramifications if not the others. I suspect that this war will not make you richer, or pad your portfolio. And what happens when we DO have real serious cause to invade? We will do so in bad financial shape with a spread-thin military.
Decapitating people is not FINE either.To oppose one does not mean one favors the other!!! These arguments have played out though on blog after blog after blog and we all know where it goes. Its about being right, its about making the better point. Its about asserting one's prefabricated position. Now when you, Rhinoculous, mentioned bias about Cheney, I could see your point on that. I still hate Cheney, but I can see your point. The trouble is that in your zeal to joust the liberals, you can't budge. Why? You can't concede ONE thing? ONE? Thats what makes me think it is an exercise in visiting liberal blogs for sport, not because you really want to have this conversation.
Yes he would be guilty of negligent homicide because he was breaking the law when the accident occurred.
When somebody is drunk and mows down a kid, they don't call that an accident.
Since the local law enforcement has issued a report stating that this was simply an accident and no laws (other than the lack of that $7 tag), this wouldn't be negligent homocide unless an eye witness testified that Cheney was drunk.
I'd love for that to happen, but Republicanism is like a cult - - say nothing bad about the leader.
By the way, y'all have to watch Jon Stewart going on about the accident . . . this was comedy falling into his lap.
Dick Cheney only shot that guy because Cindy Sheehan slipped him some acid and he thought the old lawyer was Bill Clinton pranceing around the Swiss Alps to "The hills are alive with the sound of Music," in a classic Brownshirt Nazi getup, twirling and twirling, prancing and dancing--it disturbed the VP so, to see Bush the Younger sashay up in a familure blue dress with a distinctive white stain--ol' Dick simply couldn't take it no more...an unloaded both barrels into the star-crossed lovers.
Rhinoculous, you need to go graze on some factual grass. Those "animals" at GITMO have not been given due process, gone to trial, or been sentenced. They have been made to live in what amounts to dog kennels for years. One who was recently released is a teacher and aid worker who was in Afghanistan as a teacher. He or his family was never given a reason for his detainment. Because there are are some people that would cut off heads and bomb civilians does not give us the right to treat other human beings so cruelly. Believe me, I am not sympathetic to anyone who does extreme acts in the name or religion or politics. But you Rino, are an example of the type of mentality that the neocons fear, the same mentality that these bombers have. That we can achieve our ends by any means, that we can make our perceived enemies as somewhat less than human.. Your type of thoughtlessness is the key that opens the door to the neocon dream.
Ive never dated a pinko but I think Im in love with Lily.
She has a way of pulling people out of the dark side. A psychotic blend of hippie anarchy.
Kudos to Rhino for being brave and temping fate at what he knows is a non-right blog. Lily is right in that he does enjoy tempting fate:
from a comment of Rhino's on Coalition for a Republican Free America 12-13-2006:
"Eli, i find it funny that the libs are worried about a military dictatorship, but they battle to keep me from owning a gun, which is a constitutional right, and would pretty much guarantee that we would never have to worry about it. You also show YOUR ignorance by putting that post in your comments, i haven't looked at the link, but i don't need to because if it was even remotely true it would have been picked up by every wire service and news organization in the country. As for the sea levels, i will look at the links and if it's worth my time i will address it...... oh who am i kidding, i can't resist an argument. besides, you guys really need my help."
http://republicanfreeamerica.blogspot.com/2005/12/no-wonder-we-cant-find-bin-laden.html
I love Lily too, Donkeyhue.
Hands off.
hey, I just wanted to let you know what a great public service y'all are performing here. I kept checking back all day to see how the conversation (if not conversion) would end up. I have some good old conservative friends showing up Friday for a weekend of fun & was dreading the usual face/off. So, now I have my talking points firmly in tow, I'll put on my reasonable voice (thanks Lilly) & try to appeal to THEIR interests in sorting out where this country is going wrong. I won't go hunting with them, but I will make lasagna with meat. D.K.
This police report, like the Constitution, is merely a piece of paper. Accidents happen people, and besides...ooooh, look! A shiny object!
Turns out I love Survivorman from Discovery Channel. But, he ate a lizard this evening... (deduct point)
D.K. You have talking points? Might we hear them? Good to see you. Appeal to THEIR interests? Well you raise a good point about dialogue. What do people worry about? Safety, economy, civil liberties, their jobs, their neighborhoods, crime, what? You cannot talk to anyone with your own reference point.
Wow Lilly, quite a battle zone over here on Broken Hearts Day- which is what I call V-Day....Rhino seems to be a bit of an argumentative pain...guess he will be quickly schooled in his own ignorance.....PUMA and LEW and LOC seem to have him under good control..which is good because I hate thwacking trolls after midnight....But hey- hmm, it is after MN and the Lord of Lies Discussion could surely use a bit more ammo- right?
( that being said- I am posting on this tonight anyway-
as a Nurse with ER/PEDS/PICU experience that includes gunshot wounds- both urban and rural, I will weigh in on the Duck Dick Moment)
(1) The man was shot at close range, closer than the WH is reporting. Head, neck, chest- pellets did indeed penetrate the neck- larynx, as well as heart, and Liver. This is definently 30-60 feet-( esp now that the doctors are admitting that he has an estimated 200 pellets on board). IN MOST states- it is required that if GunShot Injuries involve head or chest that alcohol/substances be tested.Also the incident usually be investigated immediately. ( not 15 hours later- when the police report was filed). Also WITNESS statments are usually required if there are injuires.
(2) The victim was taken by Heli to one hospital and then another by heli. he was transeferred to one hospital and then another. It is unclear if he was unstable out in the field- considering he was shot in the face and chest and he is 78 I would bet my RN lisesnse that he might have indeed had a Heart Attack in the field, vascular damage and bleeding , and even airway problems and not be been stable immediately. ( laryngeal damage would also explain why he is now on liquid diet and also maybe why he can NOT give a statement). Either way the reports of the Field and transport should be part of the Police report and the ER hospital report.
(3) Pellets that penetrate clothing, skin, and tissues and organs are serious. Also the amount that penetrated , now it is an Italian shotgun, "under and over" deliver- which means that Cheney could have fired Both loads- seems excessive, and strange that once he shot the Big Bird with the Orange vest that screamed and went, AHHHHgh , he would have let rip the second round???
The pellets can be lead and or steel, but xrays should have been done, or CT scans etc. If Lead pellets were used then yes, this man also runs risk of lead poisoning.
I also need to say that because people are clearly marked Quail hunting is not usually dangerous- occasionaly- but very rarely a dog gets shot, or someone gets shot in the rump or the back picking up the prey etc. but NOT SHOT in the FACE, or Chest- this is in no means typical injury pattern.
(5) and because reports were not made until the next day and alcohol tests were not done ( and usually if there are injuries and Medical care required- then the tests have to be done- also the weapon is confiscated.)
(6) There is an interesting error on the report- it says that the victim "collaborated" the story- which is interesting- esp. if it turns out that the victim lost consciousness, was suffering airway damage or had a heart attack...But chossing that word ???collaborate- isn't that what criminals do- get their stories straight?
(7) It appears that the man's health is in pretty serious condition- he has a pellet lodged in his heart- had to have an emergency cardiac cath done today, and he also has a pellet in his liver, we also do not know the extent of the wounds to his face, head, and neck. If he does indeed die, yes, Cheny is indeed facing Manslaughter charges, regardless of the shitty investigations, and the WH coverup.
(8) So in summary- yes, Lilly and Lew this is the White House Stained Dress moment....except there is indeed blood on an old man....
( and if Repugs are defending that and proud of it- then they should just hang their NAZI flag out front and be done with it...)
(9) This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that this Regime is sick and criminal- they shot one of their own, an old man, a lawyer, and then tried to lie about it.As they said in "Arsenic and Old Lace"-"It just gets harder and harder to cover up ALL the bodies".
Lilly, I'll try, but I'm better speaking extemporaneously than writing this stuff. I have to tailor my comments to some specific friends this weekend. They are family-oriented, old enough so retirement is now on their minds, hard-working middle-class sandwiched between daily care of their elderly parents & providing ongoing support for kids & grandkids. So, they should be democrats, right? Wrong, religion is the main direction & purpose of their lives & they think Bush reflects their values. I have to skip that argument because I can't compete with their faith. Plus it brings in abortion, gay rights, school programs etc that I will lose them on.
Instead, I want to guide them into the immorality of this war in Iraq. How misdirected our efforts have been no matter how we got there, how much more unsafe all our lives have become as a result, how we squandered our once exalted place in the world and all for what? So some greedy, oily multinationals can reap profits from this mess? Because they are the only ones I see gaining anything by us being in Iraq. If it's about terrorism, all I see is a hornet's nest on fire where there once were just a few nasty bees. If it's about secure energy, well what happened to alternative energy plans first proposed 40-yrs ago? If it's about spreading freedom, show me one free country in the world that was bombed into freedom.
If our own country is to remain free, can they explain the difference between a unitary president and a dictator? Between one-party govt and totalitarianism? Are we a country of laws founded on a constitution or are the 3 branches of govt just an inconvenient obstacle? Do they see any negative aspects to handing this much power to the ruling party considering the ruling party is bound to change hands at some point in the future?
Why does our president only appear in front of pre-screened audiences? Even at taxpayer-funded events where regular citizens are paying for him to strut to the podium, those same citizens are not allowed in the vicinity for fear they will ask an awkward question. What has happened to open honest debate in this country?
I'm hoping to have an easier time appealing to their own economic interests. So many worthwhile public programs incl education & vet benefits & health care are being cut in order to fund this war machine while protecting tax cuts for the wealthiest. I hate to frame it as a class war, but how else can it be viewed? The only way to keep those tax cuts for the top 1% is to squeeze the middle class til they bleed. I agree with Bush social security is a future problem, but the obvious solution of removing the earnings cap is the one thing he won't even discuss. Clean environment, safe air & water & food, wilderness protection ... all these are being deleted from our children's future so that 1% of the wealthiest can maintain a tax rate that is far below what their compatriots in any other industrialized nation in the world pay.
So, it'll be a long weekend, huh? And now I see Enigma has some medical info for us, so I hope this wasn't too long. I know I left out plenty, but really how much can I hammer them with? D.K.
Hey guys! Great contributions. Much to consider.
On the religious side though, it is interesting to consider that faiths have definitions of what they consider to be a 'just war'. We had a forum locally where we had different religious leaders- Quakers, Catholics, etc. talk about the standards they use to justify war- some Catholics for example do not realize that they are only 'supposed' to support war under certain circumstances. Now the Catholic Church has condemend this war, as have many major religious groups. Even Preznits own Methodist Church oppose it, and their Bishop's council have tried to meet with him. Now don't people take that under advisement, the views of their church leadership?
See, 'religious' people might be reminded that many of their leaders agree that this is an immoral war. A Catholic I know told me she was not even aware that Churches had 'criteria'. This is something you might ask about, in your discussion. Like I said, ask questions- people respond to that more than if you preached at them in my opinion.
Ah, but the war they can blame on Bush.....who, darn it all, turned out to be less than they have hoped.
Bush wrong.....Right Wing thinking....right. Bush will pass...it is all part of GOD'S plan.
But soon, a TRULY GODLY king...errrr, president will rule with Godly, Religious Right principles and integrity.
Children will pray in schools (almost constantly) and homosexuals will be enrolled in mandatory programs to save their souls because we truly love them and do not want to see them go to hell......so we'll create a hell on earth for them here--that should be productive.
Don't we send gay kids to boot camps now, Wadena?
I think everthing went wrong when we aloud people other than priests to learn how to read and right anyways...
Who have we tortured? Hmmm
http://www.smh.com.au/ftimages/2006/02/15/1139890768716.html
I also have to note that not one civilian "contractor", spook, or officer was prosecuted over this. I imagine though that folks like Rino just call this an isolated incident. However, Studies, history, and the international press tell us differently. But it's justified right? After all, we're makin' America safer. better to fight em' there than on our soil. Hmm what other flag wavin' slogans can I apply here?
Cheney should probably have gone with the "I thought he was a javelina" story that usually works during a hunting accident investigation in Texas and which was suggested by W (this defense is well-known to Rednecks down there) see www.roryshock.blogspot.com (homepage)
I am confused- must a be a Texas thing....What the hell is a "javelina".....???!!!
( sounds kind of like a dirty girl toy...)
Okay Rory - excuse comments above- so the javelina is a fat ugly waddling hog? ( is that correct?) and do the hogs ever wear orange vests ?
oh enigma, you're gonna have to come down to the southwest sometime where spotting a Javalina (HAVE-AH-LEENA) is a fine moment. They are NOT fat or ugly & they only waddle because that is their piggy nature. They travel in small groups & can show up just about anywhere, rooting & snuffling in the desert. It's a hard enough life without having to be mistaken for a republican lawyer. D.K.
Thank you for unlocking the mystery of the javalina.
Puma,
It feels good.
Dont hold back next time, tell us how you really feel. It would be a shame for you to waste your prized education on potty mouthery.
Puma,
Actually as a former longshoreman, I can and do swear with the best of them. however in serious discussion, which you have proven to be unable to partake in, I think it makes you look foolish.
What an interesting thread. People express themselves differently when they get emotional....and some of it is both thought-provoking and entertaining.
Until we know exactly what load Cheney was using there is no point in trying to analyze what happened.
I have read some of the folks on other blogs who are trying to be instant ballistics experts and found them hilarious.....and the major media are no better.
I know ballistics and shotguns well and I wouldn't even attempt to figure out what happened without the full information. Too many variables.
Thus far, though....this looks like a hunting accident.
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That's a great story. Waiting for more. » » »
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